On the anniversary of the coup in Turkey on July 15, 2016, as well as the post-trachetic period, Yenicag.Ru was told by Russian public figure, philosopher, political scientist, sociologist Alexander Dugin , who was in Turkey during the coup and practically witnessed those events.
– These days in Turkey, there are events dedicated to the anniversary of the putsch on July 15, 2016. How do you assess post-Turkey and the policies of President Erdogan over the past year?
– Erdogan made all the conclusions after the failed coup d’état. He perfectly understands that behind the Gülen sect, who are responsible for this coup, is the US, and there is not the slightest doubt. Accordingly, during this year Erdogan very carefully restructured his policy towards strengthening the sovereignty of Turkey, but under new conditions. The fact is that Turkey is a member of NATO and has been too closely connected with the US precisely in order to strengthen its sovereignty.
Because then there was a threat of Stalin’s invasion of Turkey, after the Second World War. And accordingly, in order to preserve sovereignty in the face of a possible Soviet invasion, Turkey joined NATO. That is, Turkey’s initial membership in NATO and relations with the West were aimed at strengthening the sovereignty of this country. And when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, when it became clear that Russia is no longer a geopolitical opponent of Turkey and can no longer and does not even want to represent the threat to the territorial integrity of Turkey even in the distant future, Ankara gradually began to transition to new models of securing sovereignty.
This was a protracted process, and it was connected with the invasion of Iraq by the Americans when the Kurds received the embryo of their state in the north of Iraq, which according to the Turks is a direct threat to the territorial integrity of Turkey. And it turned out that the force that ensured territorial integrity was the main threat, and since Erdogan made a number of serious strategic mistakes, he realized that rapprochement with the West is leading the country to a standstill and threatening territorial integrity, he began to pursue a more independent policy . The West responded with an attempted coup d’état. The bombing of the parliament and other very serious incidents in the year that we celebrate.
Erdogan understood that to ensure the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Turkey, perhaps by moving away from Western politics and rapprochement with Russia. Because Russia does not face the threat of Turkey’s territorial security and even to some extent today it is the guarantor of preserving the territorial integrity of Turkey, and the US becomes the main threat. Parallel to this, Trump’s victory, which is negative for Turkey and Erdogan, does not promise anything good for this country, and Putin, on the contrary, warms towards the president of Turkey. Although the administration of Trump did not call for a coup, but on the contrary his political rivals were tough anti-Turkish. Nevertheless, today the relations between Turkey and the US are not the best. Thus, Erdogan, drawn conclusions from this situation and gradually, not as quickly as we would like, he began to move towards the Eurasian Union. In this issue, I believe that he is absolutely right, because under present conditions, Turkey’s sovereignty depends on Russia directly.
– Many experts in Turkey and Russia noted your role in warning the Turkish leadership of a possible putsch. Tell us about it, how did it happen?
– In fact, at that time Russia and Turkey had very cold relations. They occurred with the following geopolitical events. When Putin and Erdogan began to negotiate on Syria, and the Russian president made some concessions and understanding of the Turkish policy in northern Syria, the US tried to thwart this process by knocking down a Russian plane, misinforming Erdogan. Russia’s reaction was very tough and radical against Erdogan, because Putin took it as a betrayal. Since he has just negotiated with Erdogan, and suddenly such a gesture, the declaration of war.
Erdogan had to sort out about six months to understand that a coup is being prepared. Those forces that shot down the plane, misinforming him from the real state of affairs, wanted to first break the relations between Russia and Turkey, perhaps even initiate a Russian-Turkish war, and then reset Erdogan himself. This plan was recognized in Ankara immediately, and somewhere in the spring of 2016, this situation was clear.
Since at that time Russia and Turkey did not have any connections at all. Neither economically, nor at the diplomatic level or, especially, at the level of the special services of the two countries, only a thin line on Eurasian organizations has remained. As the people’s diplomacy and the Eurasian movement, and personally, and my colleagues in the political establishment of Turkey, who are supporters of the Eurasian movement and the Russian-Turkish strategic partnership, and in particular the “Vatan” party Dogu Perichek and the Eurasian movement Hasan Cengiz, we remained the only channel Ties between Russia and Turkey.
All the other structures were blocked, and we tried to sort out the whole situation, and we received information that the plane had shot down those forces that are preparing the coup against Erdogan and he himself is not to blame for this, but the victim of the plot. And this information, which was received in the spring, somewhat changed the course of history. Because Putin strictly prohibited the work of Turkish business in Russia and said that he does not trade the interests of the country, the Turkish business could not work, but the information that it was not Erdogan himself, but his opponents, changed the situation in Relations.
After that there was Erdogan’s public apology, and I came to Ankara to make statements that it was a courageous step by the Turkish president, not weakness. The situation has moved from a dead center, and the countries have started to renew again relations and then there was an attempt of a coup. And I literally just gave an interview to TRT about the necessary rapprochement between Russia and Turkey and a conspiracy against Erdogan, and somewhere, a coup began in a few hours, and the building of this television was captured by the putschists.
Here is my story, and not so much how the operative information played, but how much explanation of the geopolitical context and complex political processes for both Moscow and Ankara. Because in such difficult situations it is necessary to understand each other correctly. This all contributed to the fact that the Turkish side was warned about a possible coup, and on the other, that Ankara should form a correct idea of Russia’s objective role and that it does not threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. This is a fundamental law that I formed with respect to the post-Soviet states, but as we see in the history with Turkey, in fact this law on territorial integrity and sovereignty works also outside the post-Soviet space, and in this respect Turkey was able to see, despite the fact that the countries Were on the brink of war.
America stood behind this putsch, and supports Kurdish separatism in Turkey. In this respect, Russia takes a more balanced stance, despite the fact that we are friends with the Kurds, but we are categorically against the changing borders in the Middle East and Syria in particular. Accordingly, out of the totality of these facts, my role of the Eurasian movement has developed as well. The most important thing in such situations is a sober view of things. I think this is much more important than some kind of strategic information. If we have the right paradigm, then we can correctly configure and understand the information. If the paradigm is not correct, then even if we know the information from intelligence structures, we can not apply the right approach. Therefore, the most important thing is the paradigmatic political knowledge and approach that I have been practicing all my life, and which played a full year against Turkey. But this was preceded by a ten-year contact with Turkey, the translation of many books, the establishment of a Eurasian movement in Turkey with my participation, so that it became a property of a specific policy and Eurasianism played a role in making operational decisions, more time is needed for this. This coup turned out to be successful both for Erdogan and for Russia, because he did not take place, those NATO forces, they were directed not only against Turkey and Erdogan, but also Russia.
– Today, the expert community in Turkey, Russia and even in Azerbaijan is divided into two camps: those who think that after the putsch Turkey has become stronger and those who consider it weaker, as large personnel changes, dismissals in all state structures , And in particular in the army. How would you rate the situation? Turkey became stronger and weaker after the coup attempt?
– Of course, the fact that it has survived is already indicative of the fact that Turkey has become stronger. Because if this putsch took place, then civil war would begin in Turkey and the Kurds were already ready to raise the uprising, because they had been warned by the American curators before. All counter-force forces were involved in Turkey, and Russia would have to intervene in these processes, and therefore Turkey was saved. The result of the fact that this coup failed was that Turkey exists today, those who believe that this is not so, they are enemies of Turkey, Russia and Azerbaijan. There are, of course, those who do not understand this, but those who understand they are representatives of the “sixth column”, Gyulens and their allies, these are the atlantists, the globalists, the “fifth column”, they are, by the way, in Russia and Azerbaijan And in Turkey, but there is less. So, if the putsch had taken place, then Turkey would simply not be all, and there would have been a bloody history there like in Libya or in Iraq.
The second point. Was Erdogan correct in building his policy this year than in the previous ones? Much more correct. In this respect, he understood a lot on his experience and began to act in the right direction, and therefore he deserved criticism from those countries that supported this revolution directly or indirectly and wanted to plunge Turkey into a bloody mess like Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Iraq.
Accordingly, those who support the putsch are atlantists, globalists, who are called experts. This is the “fifth column” with which we can not really cope, although Turkey began this purge in the face of the Gülenists. And even despite all the arrests, only the tip of the iceberg has been minted, the Atlantists and supporters of Gulen are still at large in Turkey today. Atlantists – this network, which exists both in Russia and in Azerbaijan and Erdogan has not cleaned it up to the end, so the iceberg’s foundation remains.
Erdogan actually made the right move concentrating in his hands the fullness of power, thus canceling the previous model, which was distributed among different state bodies. To save the country, there may be a restriction of freedoms that is correct. But here there are two points of view, which I consider legitimate. Some patriots believe that Erdogan did the right thing by strengthening his position after holding this referendum. Other patriots criticized Erdogan for changing the political system toward authoritarianism, and not toward a broad patriotic coalition, as suggested and this opinion may be justified. But on the other hand, weakening the army is a wrong position. Earlier Gülenists assured Erdogan, accused the army of treason and tried them, but now justice has triumphed and those who slandered the army themselves sat on the dock. Today’s army is the support of Erdogan and she stepped on his side during the coup, against the NATO and Gyulen putschists. But he still does not trust the army exactly, and he does not, in my opinion, underestimate the role of the Turkish army in strengthening the statehood and sovereignty of Turkey.
Today, one of the important points is that Erdogan needs a new ideological model, because all those ideologies that he once rested on, they do not work today. Neither Kamalism, nor Westernism, nor Islamism work, and Gulen’s moderate Islam does not work, but in essence we saw that it is far from being moderate. All these ideologies are unsuitable for serving Turkey today.
Erdogan received administrative power, political power, and he received no ideological power. Therefore, he needs to formulate a new Turkish idea and if he finds it right, he will be legitimate if he will rely only on the mechanics of the power vertical, then this can be very dangerous, because the Turkish society is such that if they have something They take him back, then he needs to give something in return. Correctly, Erdogan says that in return they receive a strong state, but this is not enough and therefore a new ideological paradigm is needed. It is necessary for its legitimization and the old model of Turkey, from which one can take something, but in the form in which they are offered today, they are not sufficient. A new Turkish idea is needed to ensure that Erdogan is legitimized at a new stage.
Dugin: “Russia recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and the status quo is no longer satisfied with the Kremlin” – EXCLUSIVE
“Those who want to preserve their territorial integrity in the post-Soviet space must balance their strategic relations with Russia”
The rapprochement between Russia and Turkey will help resolve the Karabakh conflict, Russian social activist, philosopher, political scientist, sociologist Alexander Dugin said in an interview with Yenicag.Ru commenting on how improving relations between Russia and Turkey will influence the settlement of the Karabakh conflict.
“I think this is a very favorable context for Azerbaijan and especially for the winning policy pursued by Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev recently. He was very attentive to the political legacy of his father, Heydar Aliyev, and took the most important from this. In order to build a new independent state, to strengthen the sovereignty of the country, this requires building a very balanced relationship with Russia. And in this respect, Ilham Aliyev did everything possible for his part to use the current situation of rapprochement between Russia and Turkey, to use productively for his country. He made a number of steps in advance, which now give their positive results, “the political scientist noted.
According to him, if such a rapprochement between Russia and Turkey would take place in the absence of mutual understanding between Baku and Moscow, this would have a completely different effect, but it went on rapprochement in relations with Russia, and under such conditions the potential of Azerbaijan is greatly enhanced in such conditions.
“Azerbaijan is not on the side of GUAM, which, unfortunately, is on the side of the putschists and for destabilizing the situation, but on the side of Eurasia. Accordingly, Azerbaijan is now ready to strengthen its position in the region in the Eurasian context. And there are historical and religious ties with Iran and there are strong ties with Turkey, that is, Baku is already ready to improve relations and turn the Russian-Turkish relations, and this is very good. Of course, this will have a positive impact on the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh, “he stressed.
According to the political philosopher, despite the fact that Russia in relations with Azerbaijan did not have such complicated relations as with Georgia, but it always turned out that Russia was with Armenia, and Azerbaijan with the West.
“I do not want to say that it was so or not, but it looked like it. And when Aliyev broke this model, and it was he who broke it, and it was done just before Russia’s rapprochement with Turkey, the situation became more complicated. And in this case, Russia perfectly understands that it is responsible for peace and quiet in the South Caucasus and that Russia is the guarantor of the territorial integrity of both Azerbaijan and Armenia and all those countries that are friendly to us. Russia, one way or another, is forced to resolve the Karabakh conflict because earlier the status quo was the most acceptable position for Moscow, but today the Kremlin does not satisfy the status quo, of course, and of course Baku in the first place. Therefore, I think that progress in the Karabakh settlement is inevitable, and I think that they will be implemented in the interests of all parties, “he added.
The expert also notes that we would very much like it to be peaceful, because one of the main tasks and functions of Russia in the South Caucasus, and in other regions, is the realization of peace.
“Russia is not just a moral guarantor of peace, but purely on the basis of geopolitical interests. Russia is interested in resolving this conflict. I think that the most realistic thing to expect is a decision on the five regions that are adjacent to Nagorno-Karabakh, their return to Azerbaijan. In this respect there is agreement of more or less all parties. This was agreed a year ago, and it drags on, although it is understandable that the Azeri side is not patient, but I would like the leadership of Azerbaijan, Armenia and Russia to comply with the agreements and adhere to a rational model and do not fall into emotions. Emotion in this matter is the worst adviser, there should be a calm head. All is going well now, in my opinion, hope and plans have appeared for Azerbaijan in this direction, “he said.
Dugin also added that Russia is the guarantor of the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and recognizes Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan, and this is Russia’s political position.
“Those who want to preserve their territorial integrity in the post-Soviet space and in the near abroad should balance their strategic relations with Russia in a balanced manner. I am a cautious optimist here because the president of Azerbaijan demonstrates a very correct approach in recent years, and despite the difficult path and economic problems that Azerbaijan has undergone, the country is getting stronger and if everything continues now, the situation can be resolved, “- He stressed.
In conclusion, Alexander Dugin also brought his condolences:
“I also want to bring my regrets of the tragedy that was recently on the line of contact, when a woman and a small two-year-old girl Zahra died. I bring my personal condolences and speak about more Russian people. It does not matter if the child is of a nationality, in fact it is all our children and all of them are very close to us, and even more so Russia, which acts as a guarantor of peace and security in the South Caucasus, is a very strong blow to us, and we want to wish courage and reason And patience, perseverance in strengthening the sovereignty of the Azerbaijani side, “he concluded.