Alexander Dugin: Do not be afraid of the awakening of the Russian people

https://izborsk-club.ru/13615

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Alexander PROKHANOV.

Aleksandr gelevich, I’m not the only one to believe that you are a very big, perhaps even the only Russian ideologist. We met when you after the 1991 throw in the Russian consciousness the idea of the colossal, once- Eurasianism and the conservative revolution. You belong to the revival and perpetuation of such disciplines as geopolitics.

And all of this took place quickly, one after the other, assimilated society. It was certainly odd, because these ideas were so new and huge. It seemed that we were not prepared for their absorption, however, all this was absorbiruyaci instantly and now lives as a kind of ideological routine. And now you have matured? What ideology are you willing to inject into our Russian receptive to your ideas the body?

Alexander DUGIN.

Thank you, Alexander, for this evaluation. I want to remind you that we met back in the late 80’s. I brought you in the magazine “Soviet literature” article, “the End of the proletarian era”, which no one anywhere in the Soviet Union, even in the most open of perestroika, did not dare to publish. But you, as a supporter of the Soviet Empire, its put in the magazine. I was already whistled in surprise.

With this, our collaboration began, and all the ideas that you talked about, the terms that entered our language in our political discourse — Eurasianism, geopolitics, conservative revolution, traditionalism, conspiracy theories — took place in the Newspapers “Day” and “Tomorrow”. That is, we share a fundamental unity. Of course, your opinions were much wider, you offered a platform to a variety of thinkers. At a time when sectarianism other Patriotic publications are very strict in their shared — you tried to merge. It was a historic mission.It is important to write the book, but it is equally important to publish it.

If to speak about the future, all the aforementioned elements were some of the steps work. The fact that in 90-e years sounded unexpectedly, it has now become commonplace. I now prepare and complete the next step, which also still seems to be unclaimed, but perhaps she was destined the same fate that the ideas embodied in life. Eurasian Union — our reality, geopolitics is taught everywhere, traditionalism is common thing. And the mode in which we are living is part of the realization of our dreams, projects…

Alexander PROKHANOV.

You — the demiurge, between the two of us.

Alexander DUGIN.

Together we are the demiurges. We are changing the course of history in the direction that we think is necessary, and nothing compares to that taste. Neither wealth nor success, nor power. All this intoxicating stuff, of course. But the taste of the creation story is much stronger.

By the way, another very important model — the national-Bolshevism. It’s not only youth initiative, party. This ideology is a method of understanding our history. There is a Marxist explanation of the Soviet period. But as a national phenomenon Sovietism was not comprehended. National Bolshevism became the model for the national understanding of the Soviet period.

National Bolshevism has led me to believe that the Russian political model is determined by the right-left politics and economy. It is a combination of the right policies (conservatism, tradition, religious and family values) and left the economy (social justice, strong state). Tellingly, modern liberalism is built on the contrary — left-wing politics and right the economy.

Completing at some point, the national Bolshevik, Eurasian model, I began to give this more formalized academic setting. Six years I headed the Department of sociology of international relations at MSU and worked there for the next stage. This resulted in the following two steps, which yet no one did not pay attention, but it’s a map of tomorrow. I’m talking about the Fourth political theory, and the Theory of a multipolar world. The two sides of one and the same theory.And it’s even more high level of generalization — the Fourth political theory, which claims that we must go beyond liberalism, communism and fascism. All these ideologies belong to the era of European Modernism. Exhausted but Modern liberalism defeated communism and fascism. And when he won, he came to his own end. Liberalism found its totalitarian nature, what we clearly are dealing with. Modern liberalism is totalitarian, global.

And to stand up to him, in any case can not go back, neither to communism nor to fascism, nor even to their national Bolshevik hybrids, because it is the same Modern. The fourth political theory offers to go beyond political Modernism, and the limits of liberalism, communism, and fascism, and to connect future — postcommunist, postmodern — with tradition, with a return to tradition, interpreted as eternal, not like the past. In the spirit of the New age we commonly believe that the present negate the past. It is a hypothesis time, which cancels forever.But the traditional society is based on the hypothesis of eternity, not the past. Therefore, to protect the eternal is possible today and tomorrow. It is from eternity time takes its informative potential. Protection of eternity through simultaneous appeal to the Premodern and Postmodern — in the sense of the Fourth political theory.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Eternity as the origin? Eternity as stillness?

Alexander DUGIN.

Rather, as the moving stillness. What Aristotle called real engine — fixed axis, which causes everything to spin. And it’s not a frozen stillness, this living stillness, which is organized around a time. Plato said that time is the image of eternity. But when the image of the original loses connection, the time begins to unravel, to go out of its orbit, falls into a postmodern liberal, collapses, begins to repeat, recycle. There is a phenomenon of posthistory, “the end of history”, as Fukuyama said.

What we are dealing with is the time lapse from its axis. Return to axis in the image and likeness of that time and created, is the task of the Fourth political theory. On this basis, the construction project of the future, which is embodied in the theory of a multipolar world, because every nation in it is main value. The nation becomes the bearer of the eternity in question, so to get to it, bypassing the people, it is impossible. Universalism is very thin. The connection is going through a deepening every people in their personal.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But as a religious category eternity — what is it?

Alexander DUGIN.

Religions are different. For us it is the Holy Trinity. Eternity is a property of God in our Christian Orthodox tradition. And, by and large, the transition to politics, to culture, based on age and development, is impossible without atheism, without the removal of God, without the overthrow of religion…

Alexander PROKHANOV.

We must understand that God desires, and to implement it in practice, political, family, spiritual?

Alexander DUGIN.

Not quite. I think the most important thing in the project of the Fourth political theory — seriously to refer to the instance of Eternity. Eternity speaks to us in so many ways. She speaks to us through religion. Christ is the eternal God who became man. In him time and eternity intersect. For us Christians, eternity is quite specific is the Christ, is God. And It came on time. He came in humanity. Accordingly, the Church is a deployment of the message of eternity. It is the eternal Church that lives through the earthly Church. So for us the entrance into eternity is a mystery.Our Church is explicated eternity. But for other religions eternity is stated otherwise.

 

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But in order to make the knowledge of God, the essential mystical experience. Mystical experiences possess some individuals and, perhaps, entire Nations. How to operate the eternity that it was projected in the world, the world of asphalt and concrete? Need priests? Need chaperones? Need translators for this to politics, to culture?

Alexander DUGIN.

If we look closely at the structure of our world, we will notice that it is built on a mathematical formula, which forever excluded, and where eternity is replaced by the concept of time. Further, this mathematical formula is cluttered with other, secondary formulas: concrete, asphalt, democracy, Parliament, the market, the clash of civilizations, summits. All this really is nothing like the development of the original flawed formula. It eliminates forever the phenomenon and says: why do we need eternity, she was only holding back, let it tear and build a new world. Today, the world is already in things.And in the beginning he was in the idea. And defeat him on the level of things, on the level of alternative technologies, for example, economic development is impossible, because while we are in this coordinate system, we are within the completely flawed formula based on the exclusion of eternity.

And if we just enter this formula, even without the mystical experience, then all the equations will be rebuilt. Starting from the main equation: time and eternity. Will begin to line up other political, social, economic and cultural models. And, of course, someone wants to experience eternity. They go to Athos, Valaam, in the forests and monasteries. A culture that recognizes the eternity, highlights including special institutions for the contemplation of the eternity. This is a personal journey, but that’s not all. Moreover, I would say that this is not the most important thing.The Fourth political theory and in the Theory of a multipolar world what I show is only to change the theoretical setup, basic parameters, and we get a completely different philosophy, a different science, a different technology. The notion of technology ceases to be what it is in our world, is based on time. And this approach has nothing to do with mysticism, because on the hypothesis of the eternity, you can build a perfectly rational scientific model.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Pofantaziruyte what the city looks like, which is built according to your views.

Alexander DUGIN.

He, first, needs to be concentric. If we bid this city, we will come to Moscow dorsalnogo period. In the center is the axis — the embodiment of eternity in the human world. The king and the Patriarch, the spiritual and the earthly, bound together. This city is built around its center. The center is sacred. It is a Palace and a temple. Two levels of eternity: the eternity of heaven, which is embodied in the Patriarch, in the Church, and eternity of the earth, real engine which is the king. Accordingly, around him forever at odds with the rays as the sun descends vertically.Creates a class or a vertical society. But it is not created on the basis of who is richer, who is meaner or even more. But on the basis of who is smarter, who is more masculine. Therefore, the monk class performs the function of the intellectual elite, and the purity of their experience and of eternity is the key, and the scientific papers they would be reconciled. Someone who is ready to sacrifice his life for all becomes the master of others, who are more cowardly. So there is a military hierarchy. From that military and spiritual hierarchy is the elite of society.Another traditional class are the workers who constitute the third level. They live, say, outside the city centre, creating on earth the palaces, only of logs, and creating the same hierarchical system, only at the level of family or genus. So we come to the ideal of Holy Russia. There are Holy Russia — move into the twenty-first century. Other materials, but eternal form.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Such civilizations existed, say, in Ancient Egypt.

Alexander DUGIN.

Almost always existed, compared with New time. Generally, a New time — a bit of a Mirage, blurred consciousness. Thousands of years civilization has existed. And here on this background there was some anomaly, the Age of Enlightenment. Civilization is based on education models, there are three hundreds of years just dirtied the planet, ruined human lives, have destroyed identity, technological development has virtually turned people into prorabotal mass. By and large, turned humanity into a huge mess. For three hundred years!And before that the same pharaohs in Egypt with his priestly rites and sacred animals has existed for centuries — has varied dynasty of the state, but the principle remained. Had its own dynamics, but everywhere it was the traditional society.

And Christianity has brought about in traditional society a terrific aspect, almost became the crown of the sacred civilization. Greek philosophy, the Iranian spirit of light mysticism, the doctrine of the Kingdom — all this came into Christianity. Therefore, Christianity could claim to universality of the traditional society. To some point it was.

I think that to imagine it in the future very easily. Precisely because it has always existed, we can say, always new, but with the base around the axis of eternity. Only in the last three hundred years in the West decided this vertical to fill up. And failed successfully. In only three hundred years of modernity, we broke the bottom! Then as the Egyptians, Iranians, Indians have existed for thousands of years. And then there are arrogant Europeans say: the immature, the stupid, these low GDP per capita, so the “we fly to you”.On the basis of their own beastliness began to judge ancient cultures and turned everything upside down. But, I think, is the time passes.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Then the Fourth political theory is a return to Pretoria? Sort of removing scale, rust, dross?

Alexander DUGIN.

On the one hand. On the other hand, the new is born from the eternal, because the eternal contains is new. But what happened to the modern era? She felt that the time self-sufficient that it can be powered from itself, in itself brings development and progress. But it wasn’t. It lived in empirical absorption of the old rays of eternity. That is modern is the oldest, most ancient forms of civilization. But eternity is always fresh, always new, always carries something unexpected, which has never happened before. Each spring, every resurrection, every Easter is an Event.We just lost this understanding. We have lost the understanding of life as the opening of eternity. So for us, and the immortality of the soul, and the eternal contemplation of the Eternal Trinity, rays — abstraction or of the past. But it is not. Therefore, the Fourth political theory is not a reference to the past. Eternity is quite different. Eternity is always new. Any contact with eternity creates a feeling of absolute creative impulse. That is, the future is not just contained in eternity. Eternity puts pressure on us to ensure that we are the future created. Eternity lives in us, it is not separate from us.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

So, it is an illusion that people build a society, build the cities, political systems, make history? It turns out that history creates people. The eternity creates the situation. Time is projected into the person and gives him certain temporary forms. And if so, the offset of the region of the eternal in the temporary area — also a whim of history itself. Did the inventors, alchemists, seekers of the philosopher’s stone. Did time itself. He was somehow close to his old bowl. It spilled outside.You can now rely on the fact that he would return to his Palace, and again this is not a problem of our design not a problem of our human revolution, and the problem of time, of history itself. Will be close to the hostel, which is created, and it will leave him. And this hive will be empty and the story will be moved to other volumes.

Alexander DUGIN.

When we argue, it turns out that there is a man who is his creates, and there is an eternity that is different. But our relationship with eternity is more subtle. Our relationship with eternity and the logic of history is not just so that someone creates a project, and we are just figurines. In fact, man is the representative of eternity, and he makes the decisions.

I have a separate philosophy on the Radical Subject. Of course, here we are — pawns, but pawns we are not so much of eternity or history, and pawn paradigms, codes. But who sets that code? We are only in our eternal dimension. Really, we are creatures of eternity, we — the light of the soul. And light souls that have authority on the creation of the world, can make the world anyway. They can create him in the spirit of eternity and become part of the Creator — then they are building the traditional society, when the whole culture becomes a kind of anthem of eternity.Hence the lofty character: it all goes back up.

But you can build a hell on earth, we are free in this. That is, it depends on us very much because we are the carriers of the creative principle, which forever puts into people. We once decided to bring eternity to the victim time to build a Paradise on earth without God. It turned out hell. But it is our responsibility. But the power that gave us our freedom. And not just all by itself coming back. Was a test, and those who went after Modernity, failed the test. They betrayed the most important and valuable, what makes us human.In the end, they betrayed the man, and we now see the transition to a post-postmodern eras. Robotics cyborgization — the last step of killing the human in people. But it started at the dawn of a New time. And now what is at the end of this period, that lives after the disaster, that is already at the limit — it’s not just big meanies who raise their hands, cry to God, save us, build us a new world.No, it is precisely the eternity that is in us and which pushes us to change the course of history in the opposite direction and to participate in the trial of history. This is the Fourth political theory. And build the world that is not based on human patterns, but as the Bible says in the Psalms: “not to us, o Lord, not to us but to Your name give glory.” It should not be a human creation, but co-creation with God. That is, the future is not built by us but not without us.We need to build that future not for himself, not in order to live more comfortably with benefits — absolutely not. We need to understand that the orientation of the man on himself there is nothing like the murder of the man himself, his inner dignity. Detection of eternity inside that is the problem. We have passed the test of Modernity, lost everything, but something remained faithful, something not lost of the fact that is a human archetype. Although the West has decided to lose the humanity completely. The new French President seems to really claim to be the world of the Antichrist.He — bolt system, imagines himself a global Moshiach. It is already approaching the electronic Messiah, who will be the last word of civilization, rolling in the deep. Makron is reminiscent of a cyborg. The following macron, or Micron, is already a real robot.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

You rely on ancient civilizations, the traditional companies. But what the birth of Christianity is a denial of the traditional societies. Traditional society have brought humanity to a standstill, led him to Sodom. Christ came to change the tragic determinism — when people come to absolute darkness. Christ is the great spiritual revolution. So why idealize these pre-Christian society? They did that now makes post-Christian society.

Alexander DUGIN.

And Christian society has come to this. It is a law — the law of entropy…

 

Alexander PROKHANOV.

There is no such law. This is a physical law. The law of entropy is a physical law.

Alexander DUGIN.

Not quite. A person makes a decision about the stress or relaxation. And, for example, if the sodomites decided on relaxed, then Abraham took the decision to discipline, the decision to piety. And after Sodom was a period of prosperity sacred spiritual civilization. Therefore, we cannot say that everything only gets worse. Just in certain situations and Christianity, as happened in the West and even other religions accept the decision not to maintain the sacred fire of tradition…

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But this is the work of human hands?

Alexander DUGIN.

A matter of choice. After all, the man is too powerful being.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

So forever each time gives himself to the wolves?

Alexander DUGIN.

Yes. Eternity creates freedom. Eternity manifests itself in freedom. And freedom can be enjoyed both in one key and another. This is the openness of sacred history. History becomes sacred when the choice is there, when we can go the way of Sodom, or through Abraham. When we can follow the path of Christ or by the Grand Inquisitor. The Christian tradition, as well as any sacral society, carries with it the possibility of substitution. It happened. Believers directly indicate where and when it happened.The Western Church from the Orthodox perspective shows even more ancient situation of apostasy. No religion is immune to it. Here is the biggest responsibility: using sacred teachings, we’re not immune from that, even getting to the right path, reach the right targets.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Moreover, since we have freedom of choice — this freedom ultimately leads us to Sodom, and need outside intervention. So, basically, eternity leads humanity, and therefore, the to a standstill — so that eternity has stepped into eternity. So, the Second coming?

Alexander DUGIN.

Of course.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Then the Second coming is the embodiment of the Fourth political theory?

Alexander DUGIN.

It’s too much will. I think there need to be more modest. I’m not trying to create a new eschatology, I am an Orthodox man and adhere to the standards that exist in our Tradition. I’m interested in. Fourth political theory is focused not so much on the expectation of the Second coming, but to appeal to him on the part of man. We can neither speed up nor slow down is coming. But we are free to do with themselves. The second coming does not depend on us. We can to be ready or not ready, it will happen when God sees fit.But with ourselves we can do here and now, do not wait. Can make the same choice that our ancestors did, but only in the other direction, joining the side of Modernity. Or to appeal to a completely different formula to the formula of eternity, turn to the tradition.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But whatever we made, it is still the Second coming is imminent. We’re not talking about timing and not about times. So, it is inevitable. As much as we here no Dodge and tried to improve ourselves or our world without the Second coming, we can not do.

Alexander DUGIN.

It is not for us — we for him. Not that it comes as if completely independent from us. It also comes in a very slim, what we are, what we do, how we live, what orientirueshsya. And the Fourth political theory appeals to man to change his attitude to eternity. This we can do, we can reconsider to make a huge rubble of Modernity. Unable to return to the traditional society themselves, and everyone can return by itself. And if one comes back, it will entice others. So an individual soldier, and the two people — it is generally all…

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Armada.

Alexander DUGIN.

Yes. Christ said “Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I in their midst.” But if He is with us nobody is against us. It is very important that the Fourth political theory in this case does not affect theology. She appeals to people in a language understandable for the Muslim, Latino, Indian, European. I deliberately avoided specifics of our Orthodox religion. I’m trying to describe a form that is understandable to all. Interestingly, the Fourth political theory in Russia is a closed book. It didn’t arouse any interest. Nothing to worry about.But this is my book translated into fifteen languages. I talk with politicians, public figures, philosophers, religious figures from different countries, and everyone sees it their own. Each interpreterpath Fourth political theory in that context, as he understands it. That is, I managed the most important thing is to create a model that draws whole cultures, peoples, systems against the liberal domination. This is the real deep theory of antiglobalization.And to all who oppose liberalism, not pushed again into communism or fascism, people are realizing three to four formulas and finding in them their own place, use it all more efficiently.

If the first part of my activity was largely concentrated on Russia, then the Theory of a multipolar world and the Fourth political theory is much more influential outside Russia. I was amazed to meet with speaker of the Iranian Parliament, and for two hours we discussed the relationship of Iranian thinkers and the Fourth political theory. On the details! Because in Iran there is a tradition of understanding Heidegger in the framework of Shi’ism. That is, we each other perfectly understand. And the sides are in the Philippines, Argentina, not talking about France, Italy, States.By the way, in America, surrounded by trump reads the Fourth political theory, just the people around trump published it and several other of my books. Everyone sees it their own, interpretirovat in their own way. It turns out that we can, at least at the level of formulas to create a serious gap in the Foundation of liberal views, to show the totalitarianism of this ideology and to contest the space to her full and equilibrium to fight. Liberals deny the possibility of the Fourth political theory.Recently in “Newsweek” against me published an article: “that Dugin is the representative of fascism, nationalism, a supporter of Putin” (and this is for them anyway, that fascism). Then they quote the book “Fourth political theory” and note that Dugin himself says he is against liberalism, communism and fascism. So now they are forced to openly lie and lead of the “Fourth political theory” are those fragments that deny what they write. And people online easily find the website of the Fourth political theory and do not see there is no fascism, on the contrary, I read criticism of fascism.

Fourth political theory is extremely important, because extremely right or extremely left-wing revolt against liberalism will be swept away. The current European revolt against liberalism is either a leftist populism (SYRIZA, Podemos, the “Five stars”), or right (marine Le Pen, the “Alternative for Germany”). Liberalism really wants to drive deep growing protest in the old familiar scheme, in communism or fascism. The fourth political theory offers to avoid. Even do not unite communism and fascism, but to put theory of Modernity and to move in the other direction.And this message, which turns out to be extremely popular.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Have your ideas interesting fate. You throw them into the world, they are not absorbed by the adepts, but in some strange way to seep into life as it is. And bearers of these ideas are themselves the processes that occur in our society. However, you failed to create a school, you have quite the tragic and dramatic relationship with the students. Why? Why certain people do not reach a high degree of understanding you? If your submission does not disappear, on the contrary, absorbed in the real life processes.

Alexander DUGIN.

I also think about it. I agree that from an individual point of view unpleasant, although there are a good number of followers. But of course, this scale possessed by the idea that these schools do not acquire. Maybe the fact that there is a gap between people and people, between a person and an individual. Maybe I often directly contact the person, people and history. And the story I hear and people can hear me, and those instances to which I appeal, can hear me. But in isolation — no one. That is, I am in a sort of desert, but she lives and responds.I constantly interact with her, I see how to implement my projects as they come to life. But not on a global scale.

Previously, I was indignant and worried. Last few cycles I have stopped and angry, and surprised. I realized that my conversation is not with them, that is, I do not matter to me how people are. I used to want to be the captain of the ship, which will be to translate the plans into reality. And now I see that they are implemented without a command, without a ship, just on the basis of my dreams. I can’t even say that he’s at peace — I saw some regularity in this, because to be a carrier of ideas, a man need to work very hard. And in our time the world does not give such possibility.How many followers and enemies. Even the enemies get tired of being my enemies. They’re gonna yell, yell… There are some possessed, held, and they fill me with profound respect. Long hatred, like love, evokes reverence.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Hatred is the force that turns the milk into sour cream.

Alexander DUGIN.

It is a good idea. Yes, most importantly — long. A flash of distaste, spitting some rudeness characteristic of low souls. But hate long, stinging, poisonous throughout life is one of those qualities that make me, at least, to privatnosti. This is the attention should be drawn to my ideas. Plus or minus…

Alexander PROKHANOV.

You overcame the drama, turned back to her. But it is the drama of knowledge. For the researcher, visionary, very big test is approaching to the boundary of knowledge. Where the end of possibilities and you’re exhausted, and there is a large nepoznannogo.

Alexander DUGIN.

This drama I don’t know, because for me the world of metaphysics is a open world. The secret of the inner boundary is that it is not. We just opened fully. So when we’re approaching the border, we are approaching a new path. We are approaching a new possibility for overcoming.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But this border is not only outward, it is in you. This boundary of your ability.

Alexander DUGIN.

They are endless.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

There are unknowable worlds.

Alexander DUGIN.

And the glory of God. This makes the process truly eternal. There’s always something about what it is told Gumilev: “But there are other areas, the moon in the throes of a painful. For higher power and higher prowess, they are forever elusive.” And it’s not drama, it is a challenge. It’s great that there are such worlds, how cool is that there are limits, how cool is that transcendental will never be available. It makes our existence by and large is endless. And suppose, after all, the main figure of my philosophy is a Radical Subject. It’s not me and not you, and not someone else.It is the human that is completely open and always is to overcome himself. The radical Subject is higher than our life, so it does not begin with our birth, with our texts, with our activities. When turning to ancient texts when reading philosophical and religious works, I see his presence. Sometimes I think that the future can be read exactly the same as the past. Also, it springs from eternity.And reading this future text, for example, unwritten book or a picture, not created by the artist, or city, built not born architect, to sanctify me, because everything is a creation of the Radical Subject. And this Radical Subject has no boundaries. If we focused on him, if in him we live and move to him, then we gradually cease to represent any interest.We no longer suffer from what understand or accept, don’t rejoice when they achieve success, and especially do not even care about the lives of their own and others, because it is not so important. That principle, which is spirit, meaning, purpose, goals and the tremendous wealth of the mind and its glow, which we can indirectly see in itself is so beautifully, fully, so dramatic and so problematic in itself! Because divine peace, I take it as a question, not an answer. I don’t think it’s a kind of compensation for our search. This is the beginning.I think that the divine dynamic. Eternity is not frozen, it is absolutely alive. Moreover, it is something that makes our life alive.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But you can not maintain this status every second. This is the moment. You are visited by a miracle, and you meet with a Radical Subject. And when you upadate from him, unless you do not attend the gloom, the darkness, don’t you cry at night?

Alexander DUGIN.

The fact that these things coexist. Real presence, can talk about, maybe even the primary presence that we have not defined in religious or other terms, do not leave never. It co-exists with drama. People upset, lost, sad, despair, happy, having fun, and it doesn’t matter. That is, some events like on the surface of ourselves, our inner dimension varies, as a cold observer of ourselves. And our drama, our suffering, tears or raptures — it’s just nothing. Not in this man.The man in that locked and depth is not available to us by the dimension in which we can act only on the reverse. We are a shadow of themselves. And to the extent that we — shadow, all the shadow part of our nature. But to the extent that we are what casts the shadow, the opposite. The Dam has a lovely formula: the game was taken seriously only toys. That is, the extent to which we toys, we cry and rejoice. But playing ourselves — we are not so important. Well, Yes, some minimal excitement there, but not the same, how could be otherwise.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Maybe moving from one level to another, we just complicate the game.

Alexander DUGIN.

I do not exclude the presence of this other level that sees us as a chess piece. As a whole with all its qualities, all its properties, with all its limitations. It so changes the property of the game that we have all the proportions are different. Challenges, attacks, victory, defeat have absolutely its value. I admit that everything is very vivid. The English romantics there is a piece about how the gods are chess pieces, which are driven by the invisible hand.And this contemplation of the gods, who are just characters in the hands of still higher authority, whereas for men they are the last resort of destiny, is an open system, it is possible.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Where the end of the game, the games begin.

Alexander DUGIN.

Can be, Yes. Or what people call games — banal routine, the mechanical movement of the balls.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

I sometimes think that our Russian archaic today, is our salvation.

Alexander DUGIN.

And a curse at the same time.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Curse — no. Because the progress for which we strive leads us away from tradition.

Alexander DUGIN.

This is true. I have important work to do, “Martin Heidegger: the possibility of Russian philosophy”. I analyze the structure of our society, where the denominator is the archaic and modern in the numerator. Turns out this areometer. Archaic makes it impossible to upgrade, because you have all the time to reinterpret it. But modernization does not allow the archaic to speak, makes it possible to generate a Logo. And one does not save the other one hurts more. This, by the way, felt the Slavophiles and the Westerners. And they tried to solve it, one in the direction of archaic, others in the direction of modernization.

And we still didn’t get it. I believe that the archaic is fine, but we have to release her, she’s in jail. Over shackled, bolted to the battery archaic nature every day produces the disgusting, inhumane experiments on television, in culture, in politics. Our archaic suffering. And present it as girls with balalaika or bears with bread and salt — is a mockery. The archaic is not allowed to bloom, a Bud. Is everything but modern bothers to reveal our Logo.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

I think that our archaic not that we propose in the pan, and that we remain sincere, naive, gullible, insane, compassionate, extremely brutal. We live, and our venerable tradition makes us able to transform of which you speak. The lack of steel iron structure in the soul of the Russian people, maybe, makes it very attractive for other peoples of the world. And, probably, still Russia is considered the soul of the world, which needs to give her the word.

Alexander DUGIN.

Totally agree. Russia is the soul of the world. And she needs to give her the opportunity to formulate their own logo. But we are deprived of this right. Is the source, that is the drama of my personal struggle. I believe that our archaic beginning must be the word. Not just to get the right to vote, we must throw out our Russian myth of Russian dreams, Russian word, Russian logo. Historically, we several times approached it. I can see how the same motion is repeated: once the iron gate was closed, second time — again, the iron gate was closed.And here, because I’m Russian man and it’s impossible for me to break through to the subject, bypassing the Russian front, without a Russian entity is not the main stage. Accordingly, Russian the subject for me is the main goal, the main rate for the existential expression in the life here in Russia.And this is the pathos of my struggle: the struggle for a Russian subject, Russian logo, that Russian archaic beginning were able to Express themselves not only by this foretaste, you were talking about some kind of sincerity, openness, a feature that we do each and frighten and attract. But there is something else, what’s at stake. For what our millennial history. We did not say most important words in the history. Maybe it’s just the Russian word for eternity. We approached this several times.We almost said our word, our lips were already developed in such a way that the formula of the Russian logo was ready to break away from our lips, and in that time we swept away some iron flood or catastrophe, we shot in the face. And all this continues, soon we are coming — we decimated.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

What are these moments?

Alexander DUGIN.

I think the clearest is “Moscow — the Third Rome”. When we came out from Byzantium, and from the Horde, but at the same time took on their mission. We were the stronghold of the Orthodox Empire, became Catecholam, the Third Rome. And Ivan the terrible has almost reached it. In Russian it acquired the character of an already built building. It is the most despised in our historiography of the modernist period, but this is the most beautiful, the most slandered the time when we, Russians, came to eternity. We almost said that word.Maybe with the anointing of Ivan the terrible, with nearly one hundred head said it was just a little bit, but then the time of Troubles has pushed us.

The second period was very good after the time of Troubles. Again, we begin to ascend. But there is a Split — nightmarish trauma.

The end of the nineteenth century, awakened the Russian consciousness. Synod retreats Petrovsky time. We begin to move to the Silver age, to the new religious philosophy. Russia is ready to Express his self, his secret thought. Our poets, artists, musicians (and all Russian classical musicians were the Slavophiles) reflect this idea. We approach logo and the Russian revolution throws us.

And so, it would seem that now no obstacle nor the other, nor Communist, nor Petrovsko-Westernizing. It would seem that we are free. But we have never been so enslaved as it is today. If you look at culture, politics, statehood, the economy, everything Russian, which, it would seem that God himself commanded now to be shown, excluded from participation in history as it never was. Despite the fact that we have historical background, and the people, who retained their J. in Spite of everything. In fact, we are the same Russian, as has always been, and we have a President — our chance.It reflects all Russian structures. I understand he is a part of the Russian people. But that between him and us? What kind of concrete bunker, in which a Russian man in St. Petersburg of the XVIII century the man with the beard, was denied entrance? And beard of our kings appear at the end of the XIX century under the influence of Slavophile ideas. The Slavophiles, by the way, also everything was lost, and then almost won it all. The last Tsar, Nicolas II was king Slavophile, but, unfortunately, all too tragic happened.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Putin needs to stop shaving?

Alexander DUGIN.

That’s how he wants it. And so we see that this Russian people. But between him and us is the bunker. Who are these people that are between him and us? They have the iron grip that keeps my people in the basement. Formally, too, Russian, but this is the flip side of the Russian people. I see around Putin, a three party corrupt, that any action makes their own benefit; the spies, who all agree with the West; and the morons — it’s all the rest. There are still intermediate forms.And these people, on the one hand, part of our culture is the Russian-Soviet people, they represent untenured. They block the President from his people. And it is a product of the alienating modernism. It’s an infinite superposition of false formulas, built on the original error. Not to say that morons, spies and corrupt officials is a technical phenomenon, spontaneous that they were there on accidental circumstances. Our elite have a negative result history. And in the West is absolutely the same elite dominates, only corrupt officials, think smaller.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Despite this, the Russian grass grows through the asphalt, and it is not mowed. Just eat slow and sullen the growth of this grass. The current situation in comparison with the nineties, of course, much has changed. Russian factor has purified itself from the madness of the post. There disappeared small groups, movements, social organization. So it was just a purification. And then-filling the Russian movement slowly and steadily pushes liberalism. And I agree with you that one of the manifestations of this squeezing is the President.The very appearance of Putin and his evolution in Russian history is, of course, the evolution of the Russian factor in post-Soviet period, I see four or five periods of his sense of self identity. And I’m sure that Putin is not building a state, and it builds it. Not Putin creates a new form for the behavior of the Russian state, and it grinds it, in Putin’s direction for its implementation.

Alexander DUGIN.

I agree with you. I think that Putin is the people. Its pros and cons — our pluses and minuses. And I think that the people with Putin communicates the shadow image at the level of the unconscious, at the level of dreams. When the going gets tough, Putin gives Russian responses to any challenges. Another issue is that politically in the nineties Patriotic movement has lost, and Putin did not come from us. It’s not our candidate. But he became the spokesman of the Russian strategy and Russian answer against all odds.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

This property of Russian history that cannot be understood without the category of a miracle. It does not understand through a rational sequence of phenomena, due to economic factors, through the behavior of elites. Russian history is understandable only through a miracle.

Alexander DUGIN.

Yes. And now it seems to me that the elite, which separates Putin from the people — the rational side, which does not belong to us. That is, the discourse, the level of conversation, the level of understanding — all this is fundamentally rigged. One or the other or the third. And open system that separates Putin from the people, in my opinion, the job and himself too. And it needs to be boring, and we have to drill a tunnel through the mass of this nightmare.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

As if not to miss.

Alexander DUGIN.

You are right, and you can miss, because there is very hard granite rock of corrupt officials, spies, and morons. Each has its own configuration, your own clans. And there are tens of thousands of candidates. Grow up young corrupt. On the approach of young morons. And, of course, formed the liberal generation. It’s such a granite slab the political elites of Russia. They have a certain life, a kind of vampiric force. They involve new people. Regardless of the change of the leaders of these main areas, they attracted new and new.They change, and the system no. The system is changing only in principle. When Putin will merge with the people, it must have a rational basis. This is the Russian idea. Not just feelings and not just by a supranational administration, namely the idea to combine them. When this thought arises, around this fine thread formed Institute. Maybe this institution and is the only important. It is necessary to create a fourth column between spies, morons and corrupt officials in communicating our President with his own people.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Then there will be the anointed one.

Alexander DUGIN.

I do not know. Maybe. As for the monarchy in Russia, it is because, according to the elders, before the end of the world will be restored. Another thing, what would it be for the monarchy. If, for example, to come to the monarchy now, then easily there are monstrous parody, because all the current thieves, who represents the political elite, will arrogate to themselves the status of the most serene princes, boyars and just add itself to impunity. The monarchy in the postmodern era — a very dangerous thing, because in a parody, it becomes easy.That can’t make President, as we know, the monarch terms of fatalities in the country quietly doing.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

The anointing may not happen in the temple and not through the crown. The anointing may occur through the victory of great spiritual victory. It seems to me that Putin feels his mission. Me a few weeks ago, I was with him a personal meeting, and I told him about him, the way I see and understand the mysterious Russian codes which Wake up inside of him. He listened to all this with interest, attention and understanding. Therefore, overcoming this clot, this bunker is not only possible, it is inevitable. Should proclaim such a category as the Russian dream, and the clot will resolve.Because it is the closure of the two tunnels: coming from him to us, and the tunnel that we are building to it.

Alexander DUGIN.

I totally agree with you. The only one: necessity is not a category of history.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Why? The second coming is imminent.

Alexander DUGIN.

Yes, but this is different. I think the most interesting thing in history openly we run the risk that this might happen, and the fact that it may not happen. If so, life becomes truly astringency. For example, in time or not? The extent to which our President understands this need? How does he see? After all, his thought in this system the political elite immediately refracted. He said many times: give the national idea. But this job provide either corrupt, or spy, or a moron. Or all three.In the end, the version of one — it is necessary to saw, the other to turn to liberalism, but the third just didn’t understand what he wanted.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

Determinism is Paschal in nature. Russian history is a pulsar in which we emerge, flourish and then die, turn into darkness, into nothing. And out of that darkness, of nothing there is again flowering. This resembles the entry of Christ into Jerusalem, whips, crucifixion, death and resurrection from the grave. In this sense, the Russian history is predetermined. Russia will not disappear. I don’t know, I just believe it. I came to this not through the understanding of texts and the study of Chronicles. I believe that Russian history as part of the transcendent, nadezhnoi Russia is indestructible, not subject to death.In the context of my own consciousness the inevitability of Putin’s coming is obvious. Maybe this has happened despite the existence of a blood clot. Maybe in Crimea, maybe in his last term. Putin broke into Russian history as a miracle, and transformed the story. Once again snatched us from the jaws of the black beast.

Alexander DUGIN.

What he did is a real feat. It is the salvation of the country. Therefore, Putin may have the status of national Savior at a critical moment, he still keeps everything to himself. And the fragility of the situation. Of course, he was not himself, he is the people. He’s like the people holding. The battle for the Crimea, the battle for the Donbass, the battle for Syria. The battle for Ukraine. The battle for trump. The battle for the preservation of the sovereignty. Every day the impression is that Putin is forced to take the exam.Every day of those seventeen years, he gets a black mark — a letter from the world government, which says: all, finished, stop, or world war I, otherwise. It’s really a feat to stay in this situation.

But I can’t understand why not to create a fourth line, the fourth column, we’re talking about. Because the people support him through this granite. It is no coincidence that Putin’s ratings through the roof, and the ratings of the government — on the contrary. Or Putin comes to Congress of families, together with their families to protest against a law that takes. I even poincaré was, it is now political analysts in the West are used: solar and lunar Putin. There is a split: Putin as a state elite and Putin as the Russian people. And between them is still an open struggle.We were also arguments, we might have something to lose, something to gain.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

We’re not just arguments. We have in this fight is the place there are tasks and missions. I think the goal of the Russian movements is not to create another party seeking power, and not to impose any new structure. She is to get through to Putin. To break the clot.

Alexander DUGIN.

This is what I mean. There is a risk: we aim to win, but there is no victory without the possibility of defeat. That is, without the risk of losing all, nothing. If we assume that all been decided for us, we will weaken our inner wakefulness.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

I say that the reality is that we lost, we lose. We need this darkness, a feeling of failure to transform in the feeling of victory. We need not fear defeat — we are in it.

Alexander DUGIN.

Moreover, Putin now holds at the limit. This is as loaded of a twelve-story building and it keeps. It’s a real feat, but it’s not forever. It’s a risk. We must understand that it all could collapse. So, sleeves rolled up, each of us must act from each of us. You are right in saying to write, and nobody pays attention. But if you’ve given up — then you lost. Pay no attention, nothing to worry about: work, lose, get up again. We are very poorly tolerated failures, we begin to feel sad, depressed, drinking.We must learn to stand to the end. Thinking: yeah, well, Putin. But you need to take part with him themselves. And to wear.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

But we all do.

Alexander DUGIN.

And all should do so. The Russian people, when it’s used, can do wonders. The Russian General. Great for real people, but sleeping. Sleeps and dreams in the inner blessing of Putin.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

People-Sonia. But God forbid, if it will be insomnia. No sleeping pills will not help.

Alexander DUGIN.

I just think that we need not fear its awakening. I have many in Putin’s entourage told they really afraid of people. I’m afraid that when he wakes up, it will not be what it seems. As the Russian people, we understand what the universe is in us. But you have to decide. Because — and here Nietzsche can recall only one who is in the soul of chaos, can give birth to a dancing star. We have a logo, only if clear.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

We had a fairly robust insight from our I and I our common and our separate from each other Ya. Just some kind of rite was. Means work and trust it.

Alexander DUGIN.

Yes.

Alexander PROKHANOV.

“Fractions, my angry poem stones!” Thank you for the interview.

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